First of all, Madman, I never once said I wanted to grant Constitutional rights to non-American citizens - so don't put words in my mouth.

The quotes are related to American Liberties, but you obvously didn't get it.

read my post. Notice I said read, not re-read, because based on your comments you just read what you quoted cause your name was in it, and didn't read anything else I wrote.


Yes, I am also waving my hand over my head in that "Wow, that went way over your head" kind of way.



Holy shit, you couldn't have missed the obvious if you were fishing in the middle of the desert and then figured that you weren't catching anything because you were using the wrong bait.

No, I'm not calling you a member of Al Qaeda because you support waterboarding the worst of terrorist captives. I said it because you said wtaerboarding Terrosits is a good thing - your first line of your first post. You modify your argument by later poting that "Waterboarding is not torture. Waterboarding has also saved people's lives. You people on the left are always claiming you are concerned about the lives of innocent people. Waterboarding has saved the lives of innocent people."

So I make the accusation that you are a Terrorist - now follow along here, this is where you completely didn't get it the first time -
Let me break it down for you in a more simplified version so you can understand.

You argue Torture should be used on Terrorists, even if a few innocent people get hurt along the way, because that saves lives....

So, I promptly accuse you of being a terrorist.

Being a suspected terrorist, the administration uses torture to question you about your suspected terrorist ties - because by torturing terrorists the Government saves lives, even if a few innocent people get hurt along the way.

I'm not saying you are a terrorist, but showing how very quickly the arguement for Torturing terrorists can turn into a circular problem.

How hard is it to accuse someone of being a Terrorist anyway. You obviously thought I just called you one.

Let's also not forget, the 4 Terrorists who flew the planes on 9/11 attended flight schools and lived for some time in the USA.

So yeah, the use of torture on "terrorists" could severly impact a citizens civil liberties, should they be falsely accused of being a terrorist.

Now I also read that if it doesn't kill or cause damage it's not torture.
You obviously don't know the definition of the word:
Torture: 1a : anguish of body or mind : AGONY 1 : something that causes agony or pain
2 : the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure