Madman's funny. Take his post that started, "The CIA says it only waterboarded three terrorists..." And he believes them, because our government in general and the CIA in particular would never, EVER lie.

And then he goes on with his usual putting words in peoples' mouths, smearing them by association, and so on. Usually it's a gang of one with him but he's got some help this time.

Just so we're clear: I believe in interrogating terrorists using every method short of torture.

I believe that following 9/11 the primary and overarching mission mission of the United States and all of its resources was capturing or killing Osama Bin Laden. Any moron can grasp that capturing or killing OBL won't end their jihad. I never said that was the purpose. The purpose of getting him is strictly for the satisfaction of squaring accounts with the guy behind 9/11. Simple as that.

I believe in personal responsibility and that people should learn the idea of decisions resulting in consequences. So yes, school activities and games should have winners and losers. That's how you learn to make better decisions, and the angst of losing is a character-builder that motivates people to get better.

I believe Bush and his cronies have completely botched Iraq and basically ignored border security, port security, and aviation security (they're still not screening most cargo carried on passenger jets), not to mention doing little to stem the tide of illegals coming into the country.

And I believe Madman and his ilk (love using one of his favorite words against him) have to attack others because their viewpoints don't stand on their own. They selectively quote points they think they can refute and ignore the valid ones. They think it's ok to torture as long as it's done to "them" because "they" deserve it. You'd better hope you're never considered one of "them."

To answer Madman's question from earlier, I can't link to anywhere other than the Washington Post on the U.S. prosecuting Japanese war criminals for waterboarding. But Madman would attack that source. Well, I'm not wading through thousands of pages of trial transcripts to prove a point to someone who will dismiss its validity somehow anyway. So no, Madman, I can't link to a mutually-agreed impartial source on that. But I believe it happened based on the account I read, and if I can't "prove" it happened, you can't prove it didn't. Try if you'd like.

And you can't prove everybody at Gitmo or everyone tortured by the U.S. is a terrorist, and I can't prove they aren't. We only have the word of the government. The same government that has lied again and again and again whenever it suits their purposes.

Maybe that's the bottom line here; you trust the government and I don't. Tell me, are you in the, "They can monitor my phone and e-mail because I have nothing to hide" bunch? Good luck with that. Maybe you won't end up taking an innocent picture of your child and being investigated as a pedophile.

I'm sure Madman will find my source to be a liberal left-wing America-hating terrorist-loving puppy-killing rag. After all, it is the magazine Popular Photography and Imaging. Just in case you want to boycott it. :rolleyes: