Red - I knew it was a loaded question. In thinking about all this last night, I admit I got a little heated, as we all do occasionally. Please take the time to read this entire post.

I respect those in the military. I do not respect them any more than the construction worker that gets up every morning, a WV coal miner (they been doing a lot of dying this year to make sure you folks can continue to live the lives that you do), the highway worker or anyone else does does a dangerous job, but gets no respect for it. Thousands of good men and women have died in the last few years working jobs that do very much to uphold our current way of living, but you never, ever hear about them.

I got goated into it a little by NY, but in my mind, the fact remains that a military in it's most naked and primeval form is organized and built with the sole purpose of destroying those that do not agree with you. The US military has undergone many changes, but when first organized to fight the British it's only goal was to kill, and thereby gain independence - to make the British not want to stay here. Follow through to about the start of the last century, and the story pretty much stays the same. Today our military performs many other services, many truly humanitarian mission, so to generalize and say that everybody in today's military was a killer was wrong, and I am sorry.

However, there are killers (wikpedia - A killer is a person, animal, object, plant, (etc.) that kills.) among the many other members of the military; I would venture to say there are at least a few who are proud of that fact.

My problem lies more in the idea that a 18 year old boy, with minimal Psychological training is sent to war, then sent back home and is expected to function again as a normal, human being who uses violence as a last resort or none at all. The 17-21 year old range is where people are most impressionable, and in that I can see why so many Nam vets had problems adjusting to normal society again.

My problems also stem from the rising militarism sentiment in this country. It is like people are forgetting that violence should only be used as an absolute last resort. Was that the case with this last conflict? I feel, IMO, that this stems from the violence, and acceptance thereof, that we as Americans are flooded with every day in TV, movies and video games. Respect and thank those that kill in the name of freedom, or the US, or democracy, or whatever, but do not glorify it. It is still a horrible act to have to commit.

Knight – good to see ya. I would not classify cops as killers. Again, there are a few who have killed, however the basic definition of a police force varies greatly from that of a military.

Wikipedia - While military can refer to any armed force, it generally refers to a permanent, professional force of soldiers or guerrillas—trained exclusively for the purpose of warfare

Wikipedia - Police are the enforcers of the state, with the responsibility of maintaining "law" and order (law enforcement)

To me those are two very different defenitions, with two very different core meanings. Trained exclusively for warfare, vs. the responsibility of maintaining law and order.

Also, knowing me better than anyone else here, you know that I sometimes argue, strictly in a vane attempt to make apoint that very few people will ever see. Differing opinions cause thought and progress, thinking the exact same would have never gotten us past the days of the world is flat, and the center of the universe. In conversation we do little but learn; in agreement we do little and accomplish nothing.

We can’t fish Barker in the winter, ice fishing is prohibited due to falling water levels, fucking Boulderites. I am more than willing to get out to your area if you know of a few good spots, my ice fishing experience is minimal. Georgetown Lake after some ice racing would be cool.

Edited to correct a wrong word and a few spelling mistakes.